New Montaron Romance!!!

[Smiling Imp]

[Smiling Imp]

Yes, you heard it here first. I have just begun writing a romance for Montaron! 

I must warn you though, Montaron is a selfish lover and I pity the woman that actually degrades herself enough to want to be with such a scumbag but stranger things have happened. Another thing I must warn you about is that this version of Montaron curses quite a bit, so I imagine their might be some choice language somewhere along the line.

[TDouglas]

I LOVE the idea!   

Psychotic, self-centered and just plain evil (in a loveable sort of way  ).  Uncle Monty has always been one of my favorite characters (cursing or no).

[Smiling Imp]

I LOVE the idea!   

Psychotic, self-centered and just plain evil (in a loveable sort of way  ).  Uncle Monty has always been one of my favorite characters (cursing or no).

Thanks TDouglas.

Began writing last night and I got a few dialogs down so far. Originally, I was going to of make the romance, halfling, dwarf, gnome, exclusive as a snub for the lack of 'small' romances, but why let the taller ones miss out on the fun I thought. Eventually I want to try some player initiated flirts as well, but one thing at a time. I figured Montaron would be a good place to start as far as being a beginner romance. He is very one sided, unforgiving and quick tempered, making it a less serious smoochy romance and more a parody of a bad relationship gone worse.   

[TDouglas]

Sounds good!  I've never cared much for the sappy romances anyways.  Are you also going to put in an extended friendship path for the male charnames out there?  Or, if you want a more interesting challenge, make Monty romancable by either gender?   

[Lava Del'Vortel]

Or, if you want a more interesting challenge, make Monty romancable by either gender?

That would be interesting, but not sure if not too extreeme. Even though I like many options, I can't imagine Montaron having sex with men.

[TDouglas]

Your basing your statement on Judaeo-christian mythology ... pagan cultures typically had no issue with same sex relationships.  X-ian morality would have no place in a fantasy setting ya know  (especially among evil NPC's  ).   Plus, I wasn't implying a "tender, touching" relationship ... many war based cultures fully expected their warriors to form sexual relationships among themselves (the Spartans leap to mind, but there were many others).  These weren't "romances" in the classic 16-year-old-schoolgirl sense (which BG2 seems to favor) ... more like "friends with benefits" I suppose  .

Being Neutral Evil, I'm guessing Monty is strictly after his own gratification, and probably wouldn't really give a rats arse who (or even what) he used to get it.  It would take a lot more thought, but something like that could add extra depth (and a darker dimension) to the character.

[Lava Del'Vortel]

Uh, I think you forgot that I wrote Tsuki, who is eager to have sex with anyone. Gender doesn't matter as long as he is satisfied... Believe me, I find nothing wrong in homosexuality etc, but I just think that Monty isn't that kind of man, that's all. I think that he would rather use a girl it have some nice time and kept that kind of relationship, that can never get serious.

[TDouglas]

I've never thought of Uncle Monty as the upstanding moral type 

I think we're talking about two completely different things here.  If I understand you correctly, you're talking about a BG2 style "romantic relationship" kind of thing -- finding ones "life partner", "one true love", etc.  I'm basically talking about "friends with benefits".

This would be something charname could pursue if there were no interesting females in the party and (frankly) he was horny.  Sex would simply be an extension of the friendship ... nothing more.  Don't expect Uncle Monty to start singing you love songs, bringing you flowers or anything like it (personally, I seriously doubt he would do that for a female charname either).  To the surprise of many, the fact one man has sex with another does NOT mean either one of them is gay.  Sex is highly opportunistic in most higher animal species (humans inclusive).  There is, however, a huge difference between sex and love (which is where we seem to be having our misunderstanding).

Being Neutral Evil, Monty would not care at all about moral codes -- he'll do whatever he damn well pleases, when it pleases him and with whomever (or even whatever) is available (most likely whether they're consenting or not).  I don't know if Smiling Imp want's to get really dark and depraved with it, but a friendship path with Monty could lead to some very disturbing scenes (although a Xzar romance would be even darker, with its undertones of necrophilia).

I'm just saying if you're going to have a "romance" for the ladies, why not throw a bone to the guys as well (no real pun intended    ) with a psychopathic friendship path (with or without sex ... the point is character development, not porn).

[Smiling Imp]

Thanks for the feedback guys. You have given me a lot to think about.

[Lava Del'Vortel]

And you think Tsuki is a romantic romance? It's not. And no matter what you say, no matter what are the facts of the past, present or predicions about future; no matter in what culture or what are the other contexts (like alignment) are, there are men who won't accept male-male sex. Same goes for women. And I believe that Montaron is someone like that. He's not someone driven by urges, as he is more a merciles methodist (however, I'm not sure if he's that merciles after all). And he's a Zhentarim. I always fight for monorities, like homosexual players, but it doesn't mean that we have to make EVERY character bisexual. I think that Montaron would rather make fun of PC is he appeared to be a homosexual. That would be rather something apropriate. Offering some male-male sex (doesn't really matter if that's stuppose to be 'friends with benefits' relationship - I don't actually believe Monty would need that kind of benefits, anyway as he would rather hire a hooker than have sex with anyone who's near) just to stress how evil he is would be a rather out-of-character fixation.  

[TDouglas]

I've never thought of Monty as being a bigot tho

While there are 10% of any given population who are completely "straight" (and another 10% that are completely "gay"), the rest (that's 80% ya know ) are in the opportunistic category ... take what you can get when it's available.

It sounds like you think indulging in homosexual activity is something appropriate only to "evil" characters ... I'd have to disagree with you on that as well (and for the exact same reasons stated previously).  While there have been some interesting books and articles written on the nature of "evil", what it ultimately boils down to is either the childish/religious take on it (evil is anything that goes against the wishes of myself, my group or my religion) or a somewhat more mature definition: that evil reflects how the individual relates to society as a whole (good being for it, evil being pretty much antisocial) ... in either case, it has nothing to do with sex per se.  In fact, the only exception would be sex for revenge / revolt /  violence (rape, mutilation, that sort of thing, but that has nothing to do with sexual gratification in and of itself). 

Uncle Monty is Neutral Evil (emphasis on Neutral): neutral characters are only out for themselves ... they're not concerned with loftier goals (societal, religious or otherwise).  In the real world, most of the "anti gay" people I've met would strongly consider themselves Lawful Good (they're almost always religious fanatics / bigots / hypocrites).  The whole concept of Lawful rests on enforced conformity to societal standards (usually derived from the self-righteous types)  ... if Monty was from a homophobic society (and was Lawful) I'd agree he'd be likely to be homophobic as well.  However, to the best of my knowledge the Zents are (for lack of a better term) homo-neutral (meaning they don't really give a damn), and Monty is Neutral himself (looking out for his own interests first and foremost), so his being homophobic seems unlikely.

Either way, the idea is to develop a (twisted) friendship path ... sex would be something interesting to "throw in there", but it isn't necessary.  Even if Monty was of the 10% completely straight population, I doubt he'd really give a damn if charname was or not (as long as it diddn't involve him directly).  Again, I'm not sure how dark Smiling Imp is looking to make this ... in the Murneth NPC mod (for BG1) Monty has a dialog with said NPC in which he says he's hoping to become a torturer for the Zhents some day.  That could lead to some of the more violent forms of sex mentioned in the first paragraph (rape, mutilation, etc).  As far as a "relationship" path (with another male, sex or not) that could come into play easily (the party has a captive, and Monty is looking for a turned head if not actual approval / support for the dark deeds he has in mind), possibly leaving the player in his/her own "moral dilemma" as to how to react.

No matter how you look at it, a "relationship" path with Monty could be a very interesting addition to the game

[Lava Del'Vortel]

It sounds like you think indulging in homosexual activity is something appropriate only to "evil" characters ...

You garble my words completely. I'm just saying that It's not Montaron. It's like getting too far with the character.
It's like making Sarevok gay because he's evil and he likes to give orders... It's just getting too far.
And making fun =/= being homophobic. Seriously.

You know, I hate when someone accuses me of saying words, beliefs, ideas I have never said or agreed with.

And now I'll rather go and have some rest as it's after 1AM here.

...seriously...

[TDouglas]

The eternal problem of language ... it's not a very good means of communication   I suppose we simply perceive the NPC in different ways.

Anyhow, I never intended to start an argument on the subject ... I've never seen Monty as being that opinionated on anything else so why this?  The point is to suggest interesting possibilities and let Smiling Imp use his twisted imagination from there on   A relationship path with Monty offers many dark and brooding possibilities ...

So, Smiling Imp, let's see just how evil you can be!   

[Rhaella]

He's not someone driven by urges, as he is more a merciles methodist (however, I'm not sure if he's that merciles after all). And he's a Zhentarim.

Eh, there's absolutely no reason to think that the Zhentarim are homophobic. The Realms are supposed to be pretty liberal about sexuality throughout, so I'd only expect homophobia from places with some serious gender inequalities. (Calimshan, etc.) The Zhentarim are very equal opportunity evil, though, and there are quite a few women in powerful positions.  Given the Banite tendencies, you may run into problems if you're perceived as a submissive partner, but beyond that... I really doubt it.

That said, sexuality is a matter of taste, not morality.  Doubly so in Faerun.  I personally can't really see Montaron with another man either, possibly because the potential power dynamic gets complicated in a way he wouldn't want to deal with.  I don't know.  I don't really see him bothering with anyone besides prostitutes in general.