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Offline Tameon the Dragoon

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« on: October 27, 2005, 09:35:32 AM »
While we have a few concrete ideas, I'd like to hear from everywhere else. Know of a spot where something needs changing? Want to see a Friendship with a certain NPC? Or perhaps an NPC/NPC relationship, friendship or otherwise? Think any NPCs need more quests and/or encounters? Tell us, and we'll consider it . :P

But, uh, yeah. No suggestions for Imoen or Sarevok unless they're quests. They both already have mods; Quitch's Imoen Relationship mod at SHS and Winterine and Sovran's Sarevok Relationship mod at RPGD.

EDIT: Changed the title to something less generic.
She has lived her life hunted and hated. Can you show Kari the compassion she deserves? The Kari the Kobold mod is now in Beta!

Offline Raven_Song

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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2005, 10:03:28 AM »
Ooh goody suggestion time... I know I've mentioned some of these in the faq thread but what the heck...  

 Korgan

* Needs a conflict with Keldorn, the knight will fight with Viconia and Edwin but not him?


 Cernd  - I really like him but other fail to share my enthusiasm

 * The resolution to his original Bioware quest was appalling [possible spoilers highlight to read] After he saved the kid and dumped him in the Druid Grove no mention is made of the child until the epilogue. [End spoiler] Something needs to be done with it even if its just interjections where he wonders whats happening back at the grove.  

* He is quite clearly not as hearltess as he is made out to be, he strikes me as caring and jovial, and at times funny so perhaps there could be a new quest that reflects this.

 * This one is for all druid/ranger types but surely some protest at the murder of the dogs in de'Arnise Keep would not be out of character. (I always found it distasteful that Bioware gave you experience for this)

 Mazzy

* An expansion of the Valygar/Mazzy knight/squire relationship perhaps involving a quest or two

* Perhaps a  quest that could see Mazzy gain some sort of recognition/honorary position in the Order of the Most Radiant Heart

* A developement of the sisterly relationship she has going with Aerie

 Thats all I can think of at the moment
Zhaan: I love all living beings. The seek has re-opened my eyes to the wonder of the spirit. I am now going to devote my life to enlightenment.

Offline Tameon the Dragoon

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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2005, 10:29:40 AM »
Very good suggestions! Perhaps we could add a druid NPC who is made Cernd's son's guardian. If Cernd is in the party when you speak to that NPC, Cernd could interject and "speak" with his son. Perhaps depending on the chapter, Cernd could tell his son stories of his and CHARNAME's adventures.

I agree, Cernd needs a new quest. His old one was kind of...short. Perhaps a task given to him by the Druid Grove? If you have any specific suggestions, Cernd could indeed use some lovin'.

I do think Valygar and Cernd and even Aerie should interject on the killing of dogs. I never allowed myself to do it, even with evil PCs, but it should be noted.

I love the idea of Mazzy getting some sort of honorary position in the Order. Perhaps rescuing some squires or something? She wouldn't accept any task specifically given to her, I don't think, though. She would just do it because it's the right thing to do.

I like the concept of quests for Valygar and Mazzy involving their squire/knight thing, but what sort of quest? I am at a loss there.

As far as Korgan and Keldorn coming to blows, I agree with Miss Sakaki that eventually the two of them began to understand each other. It wouldn't make sense.
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Offline Raven_Song

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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2005, 11:28:22 AM »
Quote
Perhaps we could add a druid NPC who is made Cernd's son's guardian. If Cernd is in the party when you speak to that NPC, Cernd could interject and "speak" with his son. Perhaps depending on the chapter, Cernd could tell his son stories of his and CHARNAME's adventures


 That'd be cool.

 
Quote
I agree, Cernd needs a new quest. His old one was kind of...short. Perhaps a task given to him by the Druid Grove? If you have any specific suggestions, Cernd could indeed use some lovin'.


 Perhaps something with an ecological theme:

 Restoring a damaged eco system?
 Ensuring the survival of a particular species?  Perhaps there is an illegal trade in the eggs of a particularly endangered species of bird (could have cross over potential with Shadow Thieves)

Quote
I like the concept of quests for Valygar and Mazzy involving their squire/knight thing, but what sort of quest? I am at a loss there.


 After some perceived slight on Mazzy's part an arrogant noble challenges Mazzy to a duel. Both she and Valygar temporarily leave the party to prepare. In the menatime the rest of the party overhear/discover that the dual is to be rigged, the noble plans to use a poisoned blade of somesort. The party tell Mazzy and Valygar of this threat but Mazzy can't back out otherwise her good reputation would be besmirched. Thus she entrusts her good squire with the task of seeing that the poisoned blade is switched with a normal one, to ensure an honoural duel. The party and Valygar would then need to infiltrate an enemy home to accomplish this, perhaps making it so Valygar has to use his natural scouting talents. What actually happens at the duel could depend on how the mission was completed, if stealthily the duel goes ahead, if an enemy is killed on the mission the a representative of the noble arrives at the duel the party loses reputation points and as more friends of the noble arrive a mass battle ensues.
 
 (I'll see if I can come up with something better for Mazzy and Cernd these suggestons are both of the top of my head)

 
Quote
I love the idea of Mazzy getting some sort of honorary position in the Order. Perhaps rescuing some squires or something? She wouldn't accept any task specifically given to her, I don't think, though. She would just do it because it's the right thing to do.


 Or it doesn't really need to involve a quest, Keldorn could simply sugget it to the order for Mazzy's commitment to the cause of righteousness. (Perhaps in a late chapter) Anomen would then be forced to retract all those vile things he said about her. So you'd get Mazzy as close to paladin as possible and Anomen once again humiliated all in one delicious package.
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Offline theacefes

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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2005, 12:04:22 PM »
Does anyone agree with me when I say that the "evil" NPCs in BG2 aren't really that evil after all?  I mean, I would hardly consider Korgan, Viconia, and Edwin as villains.
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Offline Tameon the Dragoon

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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2005, 12:07:06 PM »
I love the Valygar/Mazzy duel thing! Perhaps someone can mention the fact that Mazzy gets challenged alot, due to the ogre thing outside of the Copper Coronet challenging her.

I don't know about the Cernd quest with the eco system (is Faerun really concerned about that? Do they even have a term for it?). However, I can see alot of neat possibilities going along with the thing about the bird eggs. Cernd dealing with the rougher parts of human society seems interesting, for some reason.

And it's true that Mazzy doesn't need to do a quest in order to be given honorary status with the Order, but I like Mazzy. So, if anything can be thought of, it'd be even better. And besides, the less more than one NPC is used the better. We don't want to make too many assumptions on who the player brings along. Anyway, I like Anomen, so...

EDIT: I agree, theacefes. Korgan, Edwin and Viconia are just bullies. Perhaps some evil quests for them; Korgan and Viconia need quests anyway. Korgan could accept some sort of mercenary job perhaps that isn't all that nice, and perhaps Viconia wants to get a little revenge on the fanatics that tried to burn her? Pay a "visit" to their families or something.
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Offline Fantasy

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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2005, 12:21:57 PM »
Quote from: "Tameon the Dragoon"
Also, am I the only one that use to pretend that Minsc and CHARNAME were all buddy-buddy? Like war buddies or something.

I thought I would comment on it here, instead of in the FAQ, since this topic looks more appropriate for it. :-D

The thing is that everyone plays the game differently, and that everyone played BG1 differently (if they even played it). So if you're going to write a friendship between Minsc and the PC, then you have to be careful that you give enough options in just what *kind* of friendship is created. I know you can't please everyone (which would only result in pleasing no one) but some might ignore Minsc's craziness, while others like it a lot, or like fooling him because of it, or don't really believe he's crazy but is just pretending.  

The point of the above is that there are many different ways in which the PC could have a friendship with Minsc, and you should try to give enough RP options. Unless, of course, you just make a certain kind of friendship and are accepting that only those who share your ideas about it will like it. :-)

Another point is that you cannot assume Minsc is an old time acquaintance. Yes, I know that BioWare seems to assume you were travelling together. But that doesn't mean the PC actually knows him, or that the PC will appreciate the idea that their character has travelled with him before. I for one often took him along, but only because of Dynaheir and only because I usually needed his skills. But the moment I heard about her getting killed during the ambush, I started to think of ways out of that. As in them travelling after me, or them joining me shortly after Sarevok, or whatever else I could think of to get out away from that forced 'bound' with him and Jaheira.

Basically if you want to make a Minsc friendship, then go ahead and have fun. Just try to keep in mind that you can't really assume anything, and that you give the PC some RP options in the friendship. That or make it clear which kind of friendship you're making between them, so people will know what to expect. :-)

Quote from: "Raven_Song"
* Perhaps a quest that could see Mazzy gain some sort of recognition/honorary position in the Order of the Most Radiant Heart

Hm, wouldn't it be better if she got recognition that is more related to her own beliefs? I would prefer that above the Radiant Heart any day, and it would add some depth to that part of her character as well. :-)

Quote from: "Tameon the Dragoon"
If Cernd is in the party when you speak to that NPC, Cernd could interject and "speak" with his son. Perhaps depending on the chapter, Cernd could tell his son stories of his and CHARNAME's adventures.

Eh, better not. IIRC then the child is *very* young, too young to understand such things in the short time that the game needs to get you to Irencius, and even to the throne of Bhaal. It's not like years or even months pass while in the game, it's merely weeks. ;-)

Quote
I do think Valygar and Cernd and even Aerie should interject on the killing of dogs. I never allowed myself to do it, even with evil PCs, but it should be noted.

Why Aerie? She's not a ranger of any kind. Minsc however is, so if you want to include such a thing than he should indeed interject.

Quote from: "Raven_Song"
 (Perhaps in a late chapter) Anomen would then be forced to retract all those vile things he said about her. So you'd get Mazzy as close to paladin as possible and Anomen once again humiliated all in one delicious package.

If you do that then please make it a separate compound from Mazzy getting recognition. There are actually people here who *like* Anomen and it would be enough (at least for me) to not install the Mazzy recognition compound.  

Quote from: "theacefes"
Does anyone agree with me when I say that the "evil" NPCs in BG2 aren't really that evil after all?  I mean, I would hardly consider Korgan, Viconia, and Edwin as villains.

The problem is that the game doesn't really give you (or them) many options to be evil. If you would want to change that, then that might be nice (depending on how you do it of course ;-) )

Greetings. :-D
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Offline theacefes

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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2005, 12:28:55 PM »
I think the game was meant for you to play as some sort of hero, otherwise it's really not as fun.  I mean, killing the commoners only gets you so far... :)
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Offline Fantasy

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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2005, 12:31:17 PM »
Quote from: "theacefes"
I think the game was meant for you to play as some sort of hero, otherwise it's really not as fun.  I mean, killing the commoners only gets you so far... :)

It prevents a traffic jam in the streets though. ;-)
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Offline Raven_Song

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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2005, 12:32:06 PM »
Quote
Does anyone agree with me when I say that the "evil" NPCs in BG2 aren't really that evil after all? I mean, I would hardly consider Korgan, Viconia, and Edwin as villains.


 I know that the Unfinished Business guys at Pocket Plane might at some point be planning to develop some stuff for Viconia that Bioware cut. Not sure if its evil or not but you might find this interesting

http://forums.pocketplane.net/index.phptopic=15584.msg217846#msg217846

 
Quote
And it's true that Mazzy doesn't need to do a quest in order to be given honorary status with the Order, but I like Mazzy. So, if anything can be thought of, it'd be even better. And besides, the less more than one NPC is used the better. We don't want to make too many assumptions on who the player brings along. Anyway, I like Anomen, so...


 OK I take your point and I actually do like Anomen (once I've corrupted him :evil: ).

 Perhaps the quest could be something that the Order thinks is too trivial to be wasting the time of its own knights on, perhaps involving a halfling squire in trouble? (if all the knights are like Anomen they are not particularly sympathetic to the wee folk). Mazzy could speak up but finding little support from the knights volunteer to undertake the quest. On successful of the quest the knights could feel guilty and recognizing that Mazzy's actions were truly honourable and bestow an honoury position on her.

 [Edit]

 Sorry I must have been in the process of composing when Fantasy posted (hi)

 
Quote
Hm, wouldn't it be better if she got recognition that is more related to her own beliefs? I would prefer that above the Radiant Heart any day, and it would add some depth to that part of her character as well.  


 Yes, I agree. My thinking behind this was that since Mazzy aspired to paladinhood and since paladinhood is not an option for halflings (I'm not sure on this point but its what i gathered) I went for the next best thing. As the radiant heart is the local paladin order I thought it might be nice for Mazzy to be recognised by Paladins.

 
Quote
If you do that then please make it a separate compound from Mazzy getting recognition. There are actually people here who *like* Anomen and it would be enough (at least for me) to not install the Mazzy recognition compound.


 Yeah fair (and to reitereate I do like Anomen). But perhaps at some point Anomen could learn to recognise Mazzy's worth and apologize for his  unacceptable comments? (Perhaps it could be dependent on the path it takes - it would make sense that LG Anomen would feel slightly guilty)
Zhaan: I love all living beings. The seek has re-opened my eyes to the wonder of the spirit. I am now going to devote my life to enlightenment.

Offline Tameon the Dragoon

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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2005, 12:34:25 PM »
I say Aerie just because she seems like the type to say something against it. But you are right! I completely forgot about Minsc, somehow. He would also not like that at all.

I do like lots and lots of options and RPing, so yes, I will try and do my best with any sort of Minsc Friendship that is done (if one is done, but it is my intention thus far).

About the Mazzy recognition thing; yeah, it might be best if Avoreen came in and said "Yo, Mazzy, just stoppin' by to say you still pwn and I still got your back. Here, have another sword enchantment", but why not have both? In SoA you'd have the Order thing (not necissarily saying she's joins the Order and goes against her beliefs, but just them saying they think she's neato) and in ToB you'd have Avoreen come in and do something.

As for Cernd's son, I didn't actually mean for the kid to respond to his stories. I know alot of parents who speak with their newborns, so why not Cernd? Doesn't mean he'd magically start talking back.

And yeah, I like Anomen, too. Either way, I believe there is a threeway Keldorn/Mazzy/Anomen banter in one of the PPG Banter Pack editions that has Anomen apologizing to Mazzy. We don't want him apologizing twice, now do we...? Heheheh.

EDIT: Yeah, I can see that working, Raven_Song. Perhaps it could just be something Mazzy overhears some of the knights in the Order talking about, and she then goes to speak to that Sir Ryan or whatever guy about it. When he says they lack the volaunteers to do it, she asks the PC to help her save the squire.
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Offline jcompton

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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2005, 12:41:01 PM »
Anomen does not issue any sort of apology to Mazzy in the Banter Pack dialogue you refer to.
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Offline Lord Kain

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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2005, 12:41:45 PM »
Quote from: "Raven_Song"

 Cernd  - I really like him but other fail to share my enthusiasm

 * The resolution to his original Bioware quest was appalling [possible spoilers highlight to read] After he saved the kid and dumped him in the Druid Grove no mention is made of the child until the epilogue. [End spoiler] Something needs to be done with it even if its just interjections where he wonders whats happening back at the grove.  


You didn't read Cernd epilogue very closly did you?, I'll just repeat the first line.
With his guidance no longer needed, Cernd left <CHARNAME>'s company and reunited with his son, Ahsdale.
"Who--who are you?"
"Who? Who is but the form following the function of what... and what I am is a man in a mask."
"I can see that"
"Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation, I'm merely remarking on the paradox of asking a masked man who he is."

Offline Fantasy

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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2005, 12:45:05 PM »
Quote from: "Raven_Song"
(hi)

Hi as well. :P

Quote from: "Tameon the Dragoon"
I say Aerie just because she seems like the type to say something against it. But you are right! I completely forgot about Minsc, somehow. He would also not like that at all.

I do like lots and lots of options and RPing, so yes, I will try and do my best with any sort of Minsc Friendship that is done (if one is done, but it is my intention thus far).

About the Mazzy recognition thing; yeah, it might be best if Avoreen came in and said "Yo, Mazzy, just stoppin' by to say you still pwn and I still got your back. Here, have another sword enchantment", but why not have both? In SoA you'd have the Order thing (not necissarily saying she's joins the Order and goes against her beliefs, but just them saying they think she's neato) and in ToB you'd have Avoreen come in and do something.

Sounds good. :-)

Quote
As for Cernd's son, I didn't actually mean for the kid to respond to his stories. I know alot of parents who speak with their newborns, so why not Cernd? Doesn't mean he'd magically start talking back.

To be honest I never really considered him to be a good father. Perhaps if the child is old enough for Cernd to teach him about nature... perhaps. He just doesn't seem to give it much thought, and he's willing to abandon his child only a short day after he got him back... yes, he feels the child is safe there, but still. :roll:
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Offline Raven_Song

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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2005, 12:49:35 PM »
Quote
You didn't read Cernd epilogue very closly did you?, I'll just repeat the first line.
With his guidance no longer needed, Cernd left <CHARNAME>'s company and reunited with his son, Ahsdale.


 I must be missing something but isn't that what I said, The child is forgotten until the Epilogue?

 
Quote
About the Mazzy recognition thing; yeah, it might be best if Avoreen came in and said "Yo, Mazzy, just stoppin' by to say you still pwn and I still got your back. Here, have another sword enchantment", but why not have both? In SoA you'd have the Order thing (not necissarily saying she's joins the Order and goes against her beliefs, but just them saying they think she's neato) and in ToB you'd have Avoreen come in and do something.


 Weimar's item upgrade mod actually allows for the improvement once you've met certain requirements, so perhas a new sword?
Zhaan: I love all living beings. The seek has re-opened my eyes to the wonder of the spirit. I am now going to devote my life to enlightenment.